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Post by kestrel1 on Aug 13, 2013 15:54:07 GMT
If they sell a kinect-less bundle, then the kinect is worthless because no one will program game features for it. Exactly. This is part of the problem I have with MS backtracking on some of their features. They're basically setting themselves up for 8-10 years of limitations again, sort of like when they didn't require a HDD for the 360. Developers were having to constantly revise their game plans because they couldn't count on that HDD being there. Eventually there was just no way around it and games started requiring the hard drive, and then people whined and complained that they needed to go get a hard drive to play a game. Backing out of the required internet connection and licensing models is going to hurt their digital distribution plans and making the Kinect optional is basically setting it up for failure as a feature. What we're left with is basically a souped up 360 and not anything really all that new, so what's the compelling point to buying it? They better hope software makes up the difference.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2013 16:29:33 GMT
If they sell a kinect-less bundle, then the kinect is worthless because no one will program game features for it. The Kinect is already worthless. Now it'll just be worthless and in your living room at the same time.
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Post by sinjis on Aug 13, 2013 19:59:38 GMT
The Kinect on the 360 is a beta piece of kit and it shows. But it's not worthless even in that form. I use the voice recognition quite a bit. Particularly within the video apps, the only button I push is the power button. After that I navigate in netflix with voice commands only. Netflix seems to be all any of us turns on the 360 for these days anyways...
More importantly in regards to Kinect, I like the potential it has for future advancement. I'm very curious to see how much of the potential is realized in the 2nd revision. The IR blasting is a critical piece of the puzzle. I will happily banish remote controls from my living room as soon as possible in favor of functional voice recognition.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2013 20:27:04 GMT
The Kinect on the 360 is a beta piece of kit and it shows. But it's not worthless even in that form. I use the voice recognition quite a bit. Particularly within the video apps, the only button I push is the power button. After that I navigate in netflix with voice commands only. Netflix seems to be all any of us turns on the 360 for these days anyways... More importantly in regards to Kinect, I like the potential it has for future advancement. I'm very curious to see how much of the potential is realized in the 2nd revision. The IR blasting is a critical piece of the puzzle. I will happily banish remote controls from my living room as soon as possible in favor of functional voice recognition. I don't care for the voice recognition. I get it triggering on audio from games and streamed movies. One misfire caused me to lose game progress in ME3. Others cause my video playback to pause in Netflix. I also don't like that it defaults to being a microphone in Live games if I don't have a headset plugged in. If I'm playing against randoms in Halo and don't have a headset I don't want to be communicative. The motion recognition is pretty crap from my time playing Kinect Adventures and Kinectimals. I'll keep playing Kinectimals because my kids like it, but that's it. The only thing I like that it does is video chat with Messenger users on PC, and I don't even know if it does that anymore since MS phased out Messenger when they bought Skype. It's a shit peripheral with shit support, and it won't be any better on the XB1. The uses they come up with for it sound more bothersome than fun. Shit like in the Dead Rising 3 the zombies in-game will react to ambient noise in your play space. I'm not about to yell to people "Shut the hell up - I'm playing a zombie game here!" And I sure as hell don't want to call in an airstrike with my voice, have it not register, and be dead because of it. I don't understand why we're all in a big hurry to replace very precise inputs (buttons and analog sticks) with imprecise counterparts (motion and voice). If all you're using your 360 for and all you plan to use the XB1 for is video streaming then I can see the appeal of "Xbox on, Xbox Netflix, Xbox Doctor Who" but for a games machine the Kinect is a piece of crap that not only adds nothing substantial to the game playing experience but actively detracts from it.
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Post by sinjis on Aug 14, 2013 17:46:19 GMT
Didn't suggest anything about games. I frankly don't care to use it in games either.
But controlling my home entertainment center... beyond just what I can do with the Xbox itself... is something I want.
I don't have trouble with the triggering from games / streamed movies because my speakers aren't near it anymore. It happened to me once and I moved the kinect away from the speakers. Hasn't happened since.
And you can turn off the live microphone stuff. It's a check box. First thing I did. Yes it's dumb that it defaults to checked though.
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Post by Dewar on Aug 14, 2013 19:06:44 GMT
but for a games machine the Kinect is a piece of crap that not only adds nothing substantial to the game playing experience but actively detracts from it. That's what everyone said about motion controls on the Wii and a touch screen on the DS. I'm hopeful that with every machine required to have one, more games producers will do something useful with it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2013 19:35:36 GMT
but for a games machine the Kinect is a piece of crap that not only adds nothing substantial to the game playing experience but actively detracts from it. That's what everyone said about motion controls on the Wii and a touch screen on the DS. I'm hopeful that with every machine required to have one, more games producers will do something useful with it. They were right about Wii. The DS/3DS are an anomaly for the touch screen. 3D on the 3DS falls into the same boat as Kinect and Wii motion control.
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Post by sinjis on Aug 14, 2013 19:40:49 GMT
Without an ounce of sarcasm... this generation the consoles are markedly similar in hardware specs. The PS4 on paper should have more pure gaming horsepower. If you don't want a Kinect, skype, Live cloud game integration or the TV media integration then I would highly recommend you buy a PS4 over a Xbox One. For most intents it IS the same gaming console (although as I said slightly more powerful on paper) without a Kinect in the box.
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Post by Dewar on Aug 14, 2013 20:28:36 GMT
That's what everyone said about motion controls on the Wii and a touch screen on the DS. I'm hopeful that with every machine required to have one, more games producers will do something useful with it. They were right about Wii. The DS/3DS are an anomaly for the touch screen. 3D on the 3DS falls into the same boat as Kinect and Wii motion control. There were plenty of games on the Wii that made poor use of the motion controls, but there were also others that couldn't have been done without them. Millions of people bought one of those consoles because they really badly wanted to roll a bowling ball by actually using their hand instead of a button. If that worthless, then I don't understand your scale of worth. Also you can't just discount the touch screen as an anomaly. If that feature caught on in a way that no one expected, it's always possible that the next wierd control idea that someone comes up with could do the same.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2013 21:11:40 GMT
They were right about Wii. The DS/3DS are an anomaly for the touch screen. 3D on the 3DS falls into the same boat as Kinect and Wii motion control. There were plenty of games on the Wii that made poor use of the motion controls, but there were also others that couldn't have been done without them. Millions of people bought one of those consoles because they really badly wanted to roll a bowling ball by actually using their hand instead of a button. If that worthless, then I don't understand your scale of worth. Also you can't just discount the touch screen as an anomaly. If that feature caught on in a way that no one expected, it's always possible that the next wierd control idea that someone comes up with could do the same. Millions wanted to roll a ball, play tennis, and play baseball and then never buy another game for the system. Motion controls were shitty in games like Twilight Princess, Skyward Sword, Super Mario Galaxy 1 and 2, Donkey Kong Country Returns, etc. The motion controls made those games worse, not better. Pushing the nunchuck? A button is more precise. Shaking the Wii remote? Pushing a button is more precise. Motion worked in mini-games for non-gamers. It sucked in games for people who traditionally buy game consoles. The Kinect already sucked and MS is continuing it anyway. If I wanted to get off of my couch I wouldn't be playing a video game in the first place.
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Post by Dewar on Aug 14, 2013 21:23:44 GMT
Sounds like the Xbox isn't for you then. Go buy an ouya.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2013 21:25:44 GMT
I don't plan on buying one - mine will be a PS4 house. It's still interesting to talk about.
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Post by RayRay on Aug 14, 2013 22:40:51 GMT
The only games I've played with kinect and enjoyed were child of eden and dance central. Neither we perfect but I'm legitimately looking forward to seeing the progress the made with new hardware. I saw a glimmer of what could be with those games, I'm just hoping they can make some strides and maybe fully realize some ideas that couldn't be done due the the limitations of the 360
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Post by fid on Aug 14, 2013 23:19:39 GMT
I don't care about Kinect either way, I just only want to buy one console in the next few years, and Xbox's track record and games appeal to me more.
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Post by Dewar on Aug 16, 2013 22:43:00 GMT
So, Games for Windows Live and Zune Marketplace both shutting down when they make the conversion to real money on August 22nd. They're basically forcing everyone forward to using Windows 8 or Xbox clients to get any of their stuff, which is really dumb. Not only that, but you will no longer be able to get some very awesome DLC for GFWL games, such as Minerva's Den and all the Fallout 3 stuff.
Microsoft turning off services that I use while trying to get me to invest in a new digital platform seems like a poor move.
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Post by schlaghund on Aug 17, 2013 2:19:43 GMT
The only games I've played with kinect and enjoyed were child of eden and dance central. Neither we perfect but I'm legitimately looking forward to seeing the progress the made with new hardware. I saw a glimmer of what could be with those games, I'm just hoping they can make some strides and maybe fully realize some ideas that couldn't be done due the the limitations of the 360 I can't imagine they would refine a technology in its infancy to make it much better and more reliable. I only see what the current iteration offers and am too myopic and lack imagination as well as too stubborn in my old ways to see any potential in this, this 'technology'. Where is my horse drawn carriage and butter churn? DO NOT WANT!
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Post by Trendkill on Aug 17, 2013 8:55:20 GMT
Not buying one, at least not for quite a while. If MS would like to move me a little closer to that point, they can start selling a bundle that doesn't include the Kinect. Personally I couldn't give a damn if developers EVER develop anything for Kinect. It's useless for anything except being lazy on Netflix, and even then I have to shout at the damned thing multiple times to get it to do what it's supposed to do in the first place. Until they make it worth having, I'm really not interested in it.
MS shot themselves in the foot on the reveal. Way too many ideas that were openly hostile toward their customer base. Don't even get me started on this "interactive advertisement" horseshit. Between those issues, along with the host of issues I've had with Live and their so-called "customer support" since I've been downrange, I've damn near decided not to buy anything with an MS logo on it going forward, and MS is gonna have to work to earn my money back.
Still, like jclast said, it's fun to talk about.
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Post by senorx on Aug 17, 2013 11:44:09 GMT
With the reversal of all the shit policies they had in place , not that they particularly a deal breaker for me , has the Xbone looking much better. I dont have one preordered , doubt I will , but I will be getting one , prob beginning of 2014/spring. Reason over the ps4 ? Ive been invested in the xbox since day 1 , I gots history, plus I just dont give a fuck about all the weeaboo exclusive the PS consoles get. You should spend your Xone money on a PC
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2013 14:03:24 GMT
The only games I've played with kinect and enjoyed were child of eden and dance central. Neither we perfect but I'm legitimately looking forward to seeing the progress the made with new hardware. I saw a glimmer of what could be with those games, I'm just hoping they can make some strides and maybe fully realize some ideas that couldn't be done due the the limitations of the 360 I can't imagine they would refine a technology in its infancy to make it much better and more reliable. I only see what the current iteration offers and am too myopic and lack imagination as well as too stubborn in my old ways to see any potential in this, this 'technology'. Where is my horse drawn carriage and butter churn? DO NOT WANT! There's a difference between not being able to appreciate their vision or see how the tech could evolve and not wanting those things. I'm in the second camp.
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Post by RayRay on Aug 19, 2013 13:01:31 GMT
With the reversal of all the shit policies they had in place , not that they particularly a deal breaker for me , has the Xbone looking much better. I dont have one preordered , doubt I will , but I will be getting one , prob beginning of 2014/spring. Reason over the ps4 ? Ive been invested in the xbox since day 1 , I gots history, plus I just dont give a fuck about all the weeaboo exclusive the PS consoles get. You should spend your Xone money on a PC I aint doin that shit , nooooooooooope
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Post by delux on Aug 19, 2013 20:37:20 GMT
MS store has Day 1 preorders available, should I get it from there?
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Post by sinjis on Aug 19, 2013 20:39:47 GMT
I have no experience with the MS store, but one would THINK that if they say they have them... then they have them.
Because I mean... yeah.
I have the amazon pre-order in because they haven't failed to deliver dating back to the PS2 launch.
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Post by sinjis on Aug 19, 2013 20:43:34 GMT
Quick question for the Kinect-in-the-box haters. Do any of you own a Harmony remote?
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Post by delux on Aug 19, 2013 21:08:53 GMT
Rayray does
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Post by Trendkill on Aug 19, 2013 22:06:55 GMT
Quick question for the Kinect-in-the-box haters. Do any of you own a Harmony remote? Always wanted one, but the high price combined with the lack of ability to work w/a PS3 kinda turned me off on the idea.
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